Torah Teacher hosting this online Midrash: Gershon
- Must false prophets still be exposed today?
- If so, what are the Biblical requirements to deal with such a "prophet"?
- How do we identify a false prophet?
- Is the role of the Beit Din still applicable?
- What is the authority of the Beit Din?
Remember our motto: We Inform You Choose
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ReplyDeleteI want to share a dream I had last night and in its interpretation. I dreamed that I was in a long corridor with many windows that allowed lots of light {Torah} to illuminate it. So it was a very well lit place and thus I felt secure and confident. But windows were opened and these windows sills were really close to the floor. Next, I saw a pack of ravenous wolves trying to get in the corridor and at first I thought they couldn't come in but they did. They chased me through out that corridor and though I hurled big rocks at them they continued to chase me until I took refuge behind a solid door. I examined the door and it was trustworthy and secure. I felt confident and secure again. Yeshua said He is the door (or gate) of the sheep. He said those that don't come through the door (or gate) are thieves. The wolves didn't come through the door. They came through the windows.Think of the paleohebrew letter for window and what the pictograph looks like. I was troubled when I woke up. I quiet myself to let the Holy Spirit speak to me. The wolves are people that have come in, saying they believe in the man Yeshua but deny His divinity. They deny the authority of the New Testament writings. They regard the New Testament as mere commentary for the Torah. They would want for us to do away with the book of Hebrews. I could go on but I think you get my drift. Many identify the wolves with anti-Torah teachers of lawlessness which is valid but few identify the wolves with Torah teachers that are anti-Messiah or should I write MEssiah-less (it is all about ME). But the gnostic heresy is to deny His divinity because the gnostic claimed that God is so pure that He cannot inhabit human flesh because flesh is too evil. That is why John taught us what he did in 1 John 4:1-3 so that we can test the Spirits that come from Elohim and those that do not come from Elohim. By the way the gnostic are also into Kabbalah. Now for some pertinent scriptures: Act 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves1 shall come in among you, not sparing the flock. Footnote: 1See Mt. 7:15-23, Mt. 10:16, Lk. 10:3, John 10:12.
ReplyDeleteAct 20:30 “Also from among yourselves men shall arise, speaking distorted teachings, to draw away the taught ones after THEMSELVES. 2Pe 2:1 But there also came to be false prophets1 among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, and deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Footnote: 1See Mt. 7:15-23 v. 7-8, and again v. 21.. Joh_10:1 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter through the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.
Joh_10:2 “But he who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh_10:7 יהושע therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:9 “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.
In conclusion, the prophet has a duty to sound the ram horn of alarm when he sees danger lurking ahead. The Beit Din is called to rule in diffcult cases as per Deut 17:8-13. Not all the Beit Din affairs involve false prophets. Likewise, not all the prophets in the body of Messiah are in the appointed Beit Din. The prophet on which HVHY has bestowed discernment has a duty to speak out and inform by blowing his shophar wherever it might be as he is appointed to be a watchman for Israel.
Fully agree with you Ro Ri. But how must a Beit Din handle such a false prophet case?
ReplyDeleteIsrael, Short answer: with wisdom and love.. Longer answer: let's review some foundation concepts first to make sure that we are on the same page. 1) The beginning of wisdom is the Fear of the Lord. 2) The Authority and Scope of the Beit Din is per Deut 17:3-8; John 20:23; Mat 16:19 3) HVHY does not want anyone to perish and does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith HVHY Elohim, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked TURN from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 4) The Torah is Instruction and Light and so shall the Beit Din be a beacon of light in a dark world.to restore and rebuild the ancient paths and the ancient ruins. The Beit Din should teach more than punish and its light should be crystal clear because darkness WILL NOT prevail against the LIGHT. Everyone should be able to see that the Beit Din's ruling is Righteous by contrast the false prophets are exposed as FALSE. .
DeleteEveryone should be able to see that the Beit Din's ruling is Righteous by contrast the false prophets are exposed as Wicked.
DeleteIt seems as if many false Torah teachers have problems with the divinity of Yshua and can not pass the test with have been given in 1 John 4:1-3; 2 John 1:7- 2 John 1:9-11. What do they make of Act 20:28 ? “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Set-apart Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of Elohim which He has purchased with His own blood.
If the question is who should be appointed to the Beit Din? Then the answer is those on whom the set apart Spirit dwells with the evidence of both fruit (Gal 5:22-23 & Eph 5:9) and bells (1 Cor 12) like the kohens had in their priestly robes.
A false prophet basically bends the truth and does not come outright with a lie. Wolves in sheep's clothing......
ReplyDeleteThe Torah commands us to "appoint judges and officials for your tribes" (Deuteronomy 16:18). The last thing we want is to appoint an " angel of the light" which actually is a false prophet!
I have been suspicious of all modern "Prophets, dreamers and visionaries" since the late 1950's when a certain church (No names, no pack drill, right?) prophesied that the world was going to be destroyed by YHWH. The advice was given to their followers to sell everything they had and to buy as much canned foods as possible, then to go live in caves in the mountain where they would be safe! Many of these people followed the advice and did as they were told. Obviously, the world was not destroyed and these people were left with no jobs, businesses, homes, cars and were financially wiped out. This was the result of some bright spark playing at being a prophet.
ReplyDeleteI know this has nothing to do with what you are saying, Ro Ri, but I want to show how totally naive people can be, especially believers who find themselves in many churches. That is why false prophecy was not tolerated in Israel and why the Torah instruction was to stone the false prophets to death. In cases of false prophecies, it is always the sheep that suffer the most. Ezekiel 34 goes against this kind of treatment very severely and if you see how that, even today, the shepherds of Israel treat their flocks, which compares with Ezekiel's writing, you will see how YHWH expects His sheep to be given a square deal by people who do not elevate themselves to positions they cannot handle truthfully and honestly themselves.
You can be suspicious all you wantm Jakov, but suspicion is not a substitute for discernment of spirits which is a gift of the Holy Spirit. With regards to prophets, dreamers, and visionaries this is what Joel prophesy is about. There is great danger in a blanket statement, that amounts to false witness and puts the anointed gifts of the Holy Spirit at par with the adversary's false prophets deception. Yshua said that Himself when the pharisees said that He was casting out demons by Beelzebub. The devil is an imitator and you can remember when Moses went to pharaoh and converted his staff in a snake. Even though the witches and warlocks of pharaoh did the same, Moses snake ate the other snakes. So the Holy Spirit anointing trumps the counterfeit. What you are saying with your account of the late 1950's just reinforces the very well known fact that no new revelation, dream or prophecy can contradict the written Word. But from there to make the steep jump to classify all dreams and all prophesy or vision as coming from the enemy's camp is anti-Torah and anti-scriptural. For a short sample of verses you surely need to consider go to: Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
DeleteNum 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
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DeleteI am sorry it took so long for me to reply to your comments but I have been battling
Deletewith a decent signal which is very poor where I live.
I never said that I do not believe in Scripture, Torah, Prophets, dreamers or visionaries. Please don't get me wrong. What I am critical about is that, in thirty odd years of going to church, I think I have seen more prophets and such than I can remember about reading in the Bible. Not that many of their Prophecies ever came true although there have, obviously been many exeptions. What I am dead set against is the FALSE prophets and the effect they have on naive people with good hearts. Obviously, a false prophet does not have the Word of YHWH in his mouth and thus he is telling lies. YHWH sees a liar as a dog. I am certainly not trying to substitute discernment by being suspicious. Perhaps it is the very discernment of the Spirits that make me suspicious. Would you know? A False witness? I think not. I do not appreciate the charges you make against me. Your knowledge of the Bible is very impressive but, as you know, it is what goes on in your HEART that really counts. I have never harmed you publicly in any way and I do not wish to do so now, but I just do not understand your attitude towards me. It seems as though you are over reacting to who knows what. Sorry, but that is how I feel. I am convinced that YHWH felt as I do when He stated in the Torah that FALSE prophets should be stoned to death. Trying to get around that with technicalities will not work.
Jakob, if you feel I am over reacting by responding then this is not the midrash I thought it to be. My comment is not personal and should not be taken as personal as I do not know you. Let's reason together, why would I want to "harm you publicly?" Is this reasonable? As far as stoning people, this is what I think: The Torah commandments are of mandatory consequence to the perpetrator who misses the mark but they are not of mandatory execution by the witnesses. Examples of this abound in the New Testament. Yshua didn't cast the first stone to the adulterous woman. Yoseph didn't accuse her pregnant bride of adultery even before the Angel told him that this child was of the Lord. The Lord desires mercy and this must be what you refer to "what goes on in your HEART that really counts." As far as handling the false prophets look at how Paul dealt with Elymas the sorcerer in Acts 13:8-12. It was with power from the Holy Spirit not with stones. Same way Elijah handled the false prophets with power from above. The Holy Spirit is very capable of communicating the fear of the Lord to those who make mockery of His gifts, fruit and presence and patience like with Ananias and Sapphira. Are these examples of technicalities? .I think not! I am a witness of what I am writing and thus forgive me if I am too passionate about it, making you feel as I am charging you with anything. Shalom brother Jakob.
DeleteFurthermore, if you go to Proverbs 29:18 you will see that the prophet and dreamer is there for a purpose of restraining people from going against HVHY law (WEB Messianic HNV) Pro 29:18 "Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but one who keeps the Torah is blessed" The word for revelation is Strong's #.H2377
ReplyDeleteחזון
châzôn
khaw-zone'
From H2372; a sight (mentally), that is, a dream, revelation, or oracle: - vision.
LXX related word(s)
G3705 horama
G3705 horama
G3706 horasis
G4394 propheteia
G5258 hupnos
And Paul exhorts people to wish to prophesy and Moses wanted all the people to become prophets Num 11:27 A young man ran, and told Moses, and said, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp!”
Num 11:28 Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his chosen men, answered, “My lord Moses, forbid them!”
Num 11:29 Moses said to him, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD’s people were prophets, that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”
Jakov, I am on the Lord's camp (Num 12:6) and so is: Moses (Num 11:29), Joel (Joel 2:28) and Paul (1Co 14:1 & 14:39) on what camp are you in pertaining prophesy / prophets in the body of Messiah?
ReplyDelete1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly seek the spiritual gifts, but rather that you prophesy.
1Co 14:39 So, then, brothers, earnestly seek to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Ro Ri I agree everyone must be treated with love, that is what the whole Scripture is about.
ReplyDeleteWisdom you get when you obey by worship, by studying the Word of Y'shua, and not only to get knowledge..
What is the difference between wisdom and knowledge then. Here are an example of each:
Knowledge is getting enough information to help you to get you out of trouble.
Wisdom in that scenario is to use that information to help you to not get into that trouble in the first place.
Do you think the false prophet has knowledge or wisdom?
What does Y'shua say of the people (as all mankind He created with love and good to Him) in Rev 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT.", to those who went astray of the truth in James 5:19 "if any of you do err from the TRUTH, and one convert him to REPENT; and also to those who did not obey to walk in the light Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes and REPENT to turn from darkness to His Light, and from the power of satan unto GOD, that they may receive forgiveness of their sins ...".
Yes it is the Beit Din's responsibility to treat every person with love out of the Beit Din's wisdom, but also does the Beit Din has the responsibility to make sure that the person who did not talk the TRUTH and with that goes walking in darkness according to Scripture, to assist that person to show him or her what the truth is according to Scripture. And by doing that the person(s) has to repent and ONLY THEN he will walk in the Light [again].
Also does Scripture say that such a person has not the authority to teach or preech the Word, until the full truth is revealed to him by the Ruach and "WISDOM" came upon him.
And we must not forget that Y'shua also rebuke and chasten those that he loves, so must everyone be and do by doing it righteously according to Torah.
If this is not what Scripture says to make sure the truth and only the truth is spoken by men and woman on earth, then your interpretation of treating the "identified false prophet" only with love even when he thinks he did it out of wisdom, will encourage him to carry on and his "prophecy" is correct. Anything else spoken that His heavenly prophets (which is HIS words) spoke to us, is an abomination to Him.
And to be an "desciple" of Him you must be like Him and do what He did only, and what is to me the most difficult "job" on earth, as He is the Godhead. Yes I say "job description" because you have to leave everything you are busy with and follow Him and go out and make more desciples only according to His Word and parables, and not men's interpretation and prophecies, but prophecies of His heavenly prophets.
Shabbat shalom
Levi, thank you very much for your reply. With regards to your concern about what I didn't state it is a non issue. I did state that you are to treat with love because HVHY Elohim is love and he who doesn't love does not know HVHY. But love doesn't mean necessarily to use kids gloves with a wolf or a hireling. Love means love for the flock and just like the Good Shepherd gave His life for the sheep He will condemn the wolves and the hirelings out of love for the flock. Concerning the prophets we must stay clear of blanket statements about ALL prophets because HVHY is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow Amos 3:7 "For the Master יהוה does no matter unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets". Observe the tense of the verb "reveals." Many wish against scripture that this verse was read as if the Lord has changed it to past tense. But I reiterate that the purpose of His set appart prophets today, as it was yesterday, is explained if you go to Proverbs 29:18 you will see that the prophet and dreamer is there for the explicit purpose of restraining people from going against HVHY Torah (WEB Messianic HNV) Pro 29:18 "Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but one who keeps the Torah is blessed" Casting off restraint is the reason the Lord institutes prophets in His Assembly in His Sovereignty and in His Superior Wisdom. The Beit Din functions after the facts when the consequences have been realized and the damage is already done. But His set apart prophets sound the voice of the alarm forewarning trouble ahead of time and call people to RETURN before it is too late.. We must see that the issue is not with ALL prophets but with the FALSE prophets. How are the FALSE prophets distinguished from the set apart prophets? The former seek to CAST OUT restraint, as this is what haSatan wants, while the latter are there FOR restraint. as guided by the SET APART SPIRIT. Shabbat shalom
ReplyDeleteYou are blesssed when you teach the truth.
ReplyDeleteKeep on with your good work for YHVH
Shabbat shalom
The Christian false prophets are slowly but surely being exposed!
ReplyDeleteJoyce Meyr (article on internet)
Joel Osteen (saying apostels was wrong, Yeshua was wrong!)
Rick Warren (chrislam and works together with Joel).
Billy Graham!
I also believe that Sha'ul was a wolve in sheeps clothing! When you speak to christians about the torah, that it is forever, they all answer "but Paul says...". They believe and worship Paul, not Hashem.
He was the one who founded christianity, spoke out of two mouths and taught the trinity! He was a benjamite: a ravening wolve according to Genesis!
There are only 12 God appointed appostles! The 2 candidates for judas iscariot's replacement was Matthew and Barnabas.
Lots were drawn and the lot fell on Matthew.
The "reject" Barnabas went and teamed up with Paul, to go do their own thing!!! Leading the entire human race astray with their leTters... With the help of constantine and the roamn catholics who decided which books should go into the canon: the bible.
Hmmmmmm!
Shalom Izel, I am not one to defend the false prophets mentioned in your opening paragraph but I take exception with what you say about the apostle Paul (Shaul). For if you take the position that Paul was a wolf in sheep's skin then that makes Peter (Kefas) a false apostle too,. for Peter gives witness of Paul in 2 Peter 3:16. Moreover, Peter considers all Paul's epistles as among the other scriptures that are perverted :by the ignorant and unstable. It is a myth that Paul wrote against the Torah. That Paul writes against anomia (lawlessness) is explicit in 2 Cor.6:14. That Paul taught the trinity is an anachronism. Constantine has nothing to do with Paul and everything to do with Mithra. Roman Catholics have used Peter and Mary as their claim to the holy grail not Paul as Paul observed the law in Acts and taught against judeophobia which the church became addicted to. Thus, your rant against Paul is bearing false witness..
ReplyDeleteThat is correct Ro-Ri
ReplyDeleteIzel, please give me your e-mail and I will forward you my Book, if you are Afrikaans, GOD se Woord of Babilon die Hoer. Sorry Ro-Ri I only wrote the Afrikaans version, the English title is "GOD's Word or the Babilonian Whore". In there will be a lot of your answers regarding the subject.
In short, GOD is ALMIGHTY, and I believe nothing in His Scriptures would have been left out or added if it was not His doing!
Deut 4:2;12:32; Prov 30:6 and Rev 22:18-19 state it clearly.
To get a better understunding we need to look at Scripture more from a Hebraic perspective as our Messiah was a Hebrew Rabbi and He gave the Word over to His followers in the same manner and perspective.
Shaul never spoke against YHVH's Word the Torah, he affirms it.
GOD will never let anyone contradict Him or His Word.
The Roman Empire started the Trinity and Shaul never mentioned anything like that at all.
The RE also state that Christianity started with Shaul, which is a blatant lie. Yes the word started maybe then when in Scripture in Acts 11:26 and 26:28 the Greeks called the believer Shaul a Christian, but he himself nor any other desciple or believer called themselves Christians. The word Christian comes from the word Christos in Greek and that again comes from the word Messiah in Hebrew. They were all Messianic believers, because they believe in the Messiah.
Ro-Ri is also correct when he said that if we do not have the wisdom and knowledge that Shaul had, that we will struggle to understand him - 2 Pet 3:16. If you want to understand what Shaul believed in then you must also do what he said in 1 Cor 4:17 and what he taught the people. See what Timotheus said and you will also understand Shaul better.
Brother Levi, let me know when you publish your english translation. I would like to read it too. Thanks. Shalom.
ReplyDeleteA thought about false prophets and today's priesthood and the operation of the gifts among the body of Messiah
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 12
1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
Pauls seems to be addressing former pagans who were in some way led to worship mute idols, and by contrast seems to be giving them some cues on how to discern the "speaking Ruach” and some disqualifiers and essential qualifiers.
• The first disqualification; you can’t speak by the Sprit of Elohim and call Yeshua anathema (a cursed thing)
• The second prohibition: you cannot say lit. “ YHVH YESHUAH” if not by the Ruach Hakodesh ( Holy Spirit)
So no one can denounce Yeshuah by the Ruach Ha Elohim , and no one can testify of his true identity “YHVH YESHUAH “ without the Ruach Ha Kodesh.
Seems the essential ingredient here for true discernment is to be filled with the Ruach HaKodesh.